Anyone else feel Observers are too powerful?

[Johan]

This post is mainly aimed at high gold/ platinum players since that's the division I play :P

I've been losing to protoss today, a lot, and I've been trying to figure out why. The main reason, I think, is because of observers.

As Terran, I feel there's absolutely nothing I can do against protoss simply because of observers. As soon as the first observer steps onto the field, the protoss has complete knowledge of everything I'm doing. The protoss knows if I'm stacking marines or marauders. The protoss knows if I'm fast teching banshees or if I'm fast expanding. And he has all this knowledge at an absurdly early time; an intelligent protoss player can get his observers out ~4-5 minutes into the game, in perfect time to begin building to counter anything I can throw at him.


The worst part is that I feel like I can't do anything to stop this from happening. If I use comstat scan I've wasted a mule at a critical time in the game and nothing prevents him from getting another observer over to my base in no time. Ghosts using EMP has a similar issue; he can just bring another observer and I've used important energy to kill a unit that will be back in under a minute. Ravens are obviously out of the question considering how high tech and expensive they are. If I build turrets, he just finds a good position outside their view and collects the same information. If I build enough turrets to cover my base I've secured my army's composition I've spent a ton of critical resources, usually meaning the protoss climbs ahead in tech or army size. Usually I try and cover a good portion of my base with turrets however it just doesn't seem to work.

The protoss just always seems to have complete knowledge over what I'm doing and no matter how hard I try I can't stop it. If the protoss is determined to know what I'm doing feel like I can't stop it without spending a large portion of my early resources to do so. Not to mention once the protoss switches gears to counter whatever I'm building I have a much more difficult time doing the same.


Note that I'm not calling for a nerf. I'm simply asking what everyone else thinks about observers or if anyone has ideas how to counter them.

Anyway, thoughts?


Edit: Since most people see the "how do I counter" part and assume that's what this is about (even though I did say that), I know how to build missile turrets and I know what a comstat is (though why anyone would use a comstat to kill an observer so early in the game...). I'm more interested in the opinions on the availability of observers so quickly and early in the game compared to their cost and effectiveness.

[Dagger]

Edit: Try and get a missile turret or two up before they can tech them.

[Perq]

Missile Turrets

[Fohobogah]

Try setting up missile turrets, Works well. Raven's if you upgrade missile will one shot em as they comme, or if you back em up with other unit, will simply kill em. And mule is overated. I honestly get more out of comsat then mules. As a terran, you should not know much less then he does anyway as soon as you expand.

[Gyroman]

unless he covers his base thoroughly I dont see how turrets are going to help

just depends im only doing rush strats right now, so I either win or lose at the beginning

[Darkenon]

Observers are good, I might say they border on "too good" only because they can be out so much faster than a raven. People may shout turrets but 5-6 mins in, any money spend on a turret / eb will have to come from somewhere else and I just dont want to sink that money down unless I see a dark shrine. If observers are coming so soon and dont require a building anymore, id like to see them scaled back a bit so you have to tech to make them as strong as they are now.

ie... if theyre basic, make them visible and throw in a cheap tech on a higher tier building like fleet beacon or the robotics upgrade building.

[Wit]

unless he covers his base thoroughly I dont see how turrets are going to help

just depends im only doing rush strats right now, so I either win or lose at the beginning

All he needs is two turrets next to his main, thats where usually people with observers scout. Terran also has scan. So either way if he moves his turrets in too close, they will get rolled by turrets easily. (Watch the replay and see where they usually put their observers, they just start building turrets in common positions where people travel observers and your fine.

If you want you could put ghosts/banshee's in his base to see what hes doing.

[Johan]

Oh I'm a big fan of comstat too. My issue with using comstat early game is that mules seem most important early game rather than late game when expansions start rolling out. Late game I have no problems using a comstat to kill an observer if I spot one, it's early game that I'm iffy to do it. Using scan to get the observer means I'm denied scanning the enemies forces or the resources if I'm feeling I need the cash.

unless he covers his base thoroughly I dont see how turrets are going to help

just depends im only doing rush strats right now, so I either win or lose at the beginning

Yea, this is usually the case. I can just never seen to cover my base thoroughly enough to hold off the observers which was why I was asking. I'll try positioning my turrets better, maybe I was just not doing it appropriately.

I usually try a timing push with a ghost or two and a group of marines and marauders however most of the protoss I've been playing have been managing to get out ridiculously fast colossi. I'm going through the replays to see what I could have done; I'm starting to wonder if I was just being too afraid of the colossi and that I should have just pushed.

[Fohobogah]

True, turrets are limited in use, will make him loose MAYBE one observer. Would it be op if turrets had the same ability that the bunker has? But i still think you should not know much less about his base then he does about your's. After the first scv scout, you're only mean of information is Commsat. So unless it's EXTREMELY obvious he is not teching(if you see him FE), you should scan him rather then mule. Building the right unit Â*Â*is better then building more units vs protoss, especially cause of collossi are handled differently then stalkers+zealots.

[Colrath]

Observers are great for map control, but are easily killed. It's your fault for not keeping detectors around your army if you do not want them to be discovered.

[Namhcir]

This post is mainly aimed at high gold/ platinum players since that's the division I play :P

I've been losing to protoss today, a lot, and I've been trying to figure out why. The main reason, I think, is because of observers.

As Terran, I feel there's absolutely nothing I can do against protoss simply because of observers. As soon as the first observer steps onto the field, the protoss has complete knowledge of everything I'm doing. The protoss knows if I'm stacking marines or marauders. The protoss knows if I'm fast teching banshees or if I'm fast expanding. And he has all this knowledge at an absurdly early time; an intelligent protoss player can get his observers out ~4-5 minutes into the game, in perfect time to begin building to counter anything I can throw at him.


The worst part is that I feel like I can't do anything to stop this from happening. If I use comstat scan I've wasted a mule at a critical time in the game and nothing prevents him from getting another observer over to my base in no time. Ghosts using EMP has a similar issue; he can just bring another observer and I've used important energy to kill a unit that will be back in under a minute. Ravens are obviously out of the question considering how high tech and expensive they are. If I build turrets, he just finds a good position outside their view and collects the same information. If I build enough turrets to cover my base I've secured my army's composition I've spent a ton of critical resources, usually meaning the protoss climbs ahead in tech or army size. Usually I try and cover a good portion of my base with turrets however it just doesn't seem to work.

The protoss just always seems to have complete knowledge over what I'm doing and no matter how hard I try I can't stop it. If the protoss is determined to know what I'm doing feel like I can't stop it without spending a large portion of my early resources to do so. Not to mention once the protoss switches gears to counter whatever I'm building I have a much more difficult time doing the same.


Note that I'm not calling for a nerf. I'm simply asking what everyone else thinks about observers or if anyone has ideas how to counter them.

Anyway, thoughts?

they are fine

[Mentlegen]

Observers are great for map control, but are easily killed. It's your fault for not keeping detectors around your army if you do not want them to be discovered.

Would you like some durr with your hurr?

Raven's require a starport, and a tech lab.

Observers simply requires a robotics facility.

Protoss will get observers out before your ravens. If they so wanted to they could probably put an observer on every mineral patch before you get even one raven out.

[Colrath]

Would you like some durr with your hurr?

Raven's require a starport, and a tech lab.

Observers simply requires a robotics facility.

Protoss will get observers out before your ravens. If they so wanted to they could probably put an observer on every mineral patch before you get even one raven out.

...Starport and Robo fac are the same tier. It takes a Gateway and Cybernetics Core to get a Robo Fac where it takes a racks and a factory to pump out a Starport.

HURR DEE HURR HURR?

[Meat]

...Starport and Robo fac are the same tier. It takes a Gateway and Cybernetics Core to get a Robo Fac where it takes a racks and a factory to pump out a Starport.

HURR DEE HURR HURR?

Cycore = 150min
Robofac = 200min 100gas
Obs = 25min 75gas

Factory = 200min 100 gas
Starport = 150min 100 gas
Starport Tech Lab = 50min 50gas
Raven = 100 min 200 gas

Obs are fine.

Protoss have always been this way. Protoss will always know what you're doing - it's just a fact of PvT. You have to know that they know and that they're trying to counter.. And hope that you're better than them and can outplay them. If they're better than you, you will lose. If they're bad and they're not using obs, you're going to win anyway. So if you really think about it, a few obs don't change much.

Put a turret up at your choke over your army to deter the obs from sitting on it, that's about all you can do.

[Dirkydu]

Observers are great for map control, but are easily killed. It's your fault for not keeping detectors around your army if you do not want them to be discovered.

Because obviously when your army kills all of your opponents Obs on your way to his base he'll not know what killed them and just assume magic did it...

[Rks]

Why many people complain about old thing in Sc1 now? I

[Johan]

It wasn't the same as SC1 though.

In SC1 a robotics bay AND an observatory was required to build an observer. Now observers just require the robotics bay. While it may not seem like such a big change, it is. It means the protoss has map knowledge much earlier in the game with less resources spent on it :P And I'm not complaining, I'm simply asking what other people think about what I just mentioned: the availability of such a cheap, excellent scout so early in the game.

And I don't think people are fully understanding what I mean. Killing observers late game is not a problem. Of course I can build a raven to kill observers late game. Hell, I can use a scan late game; by that time I usually have two comstats just for the sake of scouting the enemies position. I'm not stupid enough to walk my late game army around without checking for observers :P I was wondering what people thought about observers early game, meaning before you can finish yourstarport or get your expansion up.

It seems that most people don't have an issue with observers though. I'll try rewatching my replays and seeing if I could have positioned my turrets better to scare off the observers. I'm not sure if I could have, though :S

[Nataku]

get a marine or two and scan yourself. you can actualy SEE the observor if you look at the terrain, light kinda bends around it (especialy when moving) to know the exact spot.

[Wit]

get a marine or two and scan yourself. you can actualy SEE the observor if you look at the terrain, light kinda bends around it (especialy when moving) to know the exact spot.

Yeah I personally find it easy to know when observers are in your base when I was terran, as zerg I don't know the light doesn't hit the observer like I thought it should.

[Cellar]

get a marine or two and scan yourself. you can actualy SEE the observor if you look at the terrain, light kinda bends around it (especialy when moving) to know the exact spot.
people keep repeating the same thing

scan cripples the terran economy early game, just to get rid of an observer you can have back in our base in 15 seconds

In a game where theyve done everything to limit detection, they made the observer faster and easier to get without requiring an observatory.

In addition to that fast robotics is the preferred build. In sc1 robo typically comes out after expansion unless you are going fast reaver or doing the safest build in the world. In sc2 every P has a robo minutes into the game.

Turrets are a horrible answer too. The mineral investment to keep an observer out would be astronomical even with the turret range upgrade.

IMO observers should be on robotics support bay. There's no reason for them to be easier and cheaper to get in a game where scouting is overall more difficult. I can't even scan unless I like throwing away 270 minerals to see your base for a few seconds. For a minimal cost and no deviation from the standard build a P can have an observer in my base minutes into the game. It doesn't help maps are so close there isnt even travel time. He can see your build well in advance of you moving out, at a very critical time after scouts have typically died. Very clear imbalance.

The only reason this isn't a bigger issue yet is because even in platinum theres tons of Protoss who are too bad to build an observer

[Nepty]

The bases in the current map pool are large enough that spreading out tech buildings makes scan a bit of a crapshoot in the early-midgame where a tech rush can be fatal. It needs a lower energy cost or a larger radius IMO.

[Flamescale]

The fact that each scan effectively costs 270 minerals seems a tad absurd, imo.

[Poolatka]

Try setting up missile turrets, Works well. Raven's if you upgrade missile will one shot em as they comme, or if you back em up with other unit, will simply kill em. And mule is overated. I honestly get more out of comsat then mules. As a terran, you should not know much less then he does anyway as soon as you expand.

wait... you're gunna waste a seeker missile on an observer?

[Messana]

lol@first 3 replies that did not even bother to read OP's post.

[Seando]

don't forget to add they make it easy for someone who goes blink stalkers early to jump right in the back of your base.

[ghost]

Ya observers are OP. Too early and made better by the fact that u are on ur way to unlocking Immortals and Collosus, grab obs, know when they leave their base, what they are building next, the composition of their army or force the terran to have loads less units due to turrets cost

Four turrets and i could have had a Expo or four marauders, or 8 marines.... not to mention four wont even cover what you need it to. realistically to keep them out and cover your route to his base it'd cost hundreds more.

if they are supposed to 'just know' what im doing, then why not just give protoss a maphack at the robo instead? Just know? wow. just wow.

[Frozen]

This post is mainly aimed at high gold/ platinum players since that's the division I play :P

I've been losing to protoss today, a lot, and I've been trying to figure out why. The main reason, I think, is because of observers.

As Terran, I feel there's absolutely nothing I can do against protoss simply because of observers. As soon as the first observer steps onto the field, the protoss has complete knowledge of everything I'm doing. The protoss knows if I'm stacking marines or marauders. The protoss knows if I'm fast teching banshees or if I'm fast expanding. And he has all this knowledge at an absurdly early time; an intelligent protoss player can get his observers out ~4-5 minutes into the game, in perfect time to begin building to counter anything I can throw at him.


The worst part is that I feel like I can't do anything to stop this from happening. If I use comstat scan I've wasted a mule at a critical time in the game and nothing prevents him from getting another observer over to my base in no time. Ghosts using EMP has a similar issue; he can just bring another observer and I've used important energy to kill a unit that will be back in under a minute. Ravens are obviously out of the question considering how high tech and expensive they are. If I build turrets, he just finds a good position outside their view and collects the same information. If I build enough turrets to cover my base I've secured my army's composition I've spent a ton of critical resources, usually meaning the protoss climbs ahead in tech or army size. Usually I try and cover a good portion of my base with turrets however it just doesn't seem to work.

The protoss just always seems to have complete knowledge over what I'm doing and no matter how hard I try I can't stop it. If the protoss is determined to know what I'm doing feel like I can't stop it without spending a large portion of my early resources to do so. Not to mention once the protoss switches gears to counter whatever I'm building I have a much more difficult time doing the same.


Note that I'm not calling for a nerf. I'm simply asking what everyone else thinks about observers or if anyone has ideas how to counter them.

Anyway, thoughts?

Most bases can be covered by 6 turrets or less. The effect is worth the money. You can scan his base, but he cannot see yours.

I was highly tempted to just open this thread, hit reply, and type in "Nerf Observer burst dmg" XD

[Amber]

Honestly the biggest deterrent for me to get an observer early in the first SC was just how #*%@ing slow they were. I knew I'd have to go through a bunch of tech just to upgrade its speed. Maybe slowing down its speed to crawl while having an upgrade available might do the trick.

[Johan]

Yeah I personally find it easy to know when observers are in your base when I was terran, as zerg I don't know the light doesn't hit the observer like I thought it should.

A tip I have for spotting observers is to scroll your camera down every so often. When you zoom in it lowers your camera and forces the observers to shimmer a bit. Makes it a lot easier to figure out their position. You just have to kind of guess where the observer is before hand :P



Most bases can be covered by 6 turrets or less. The effect is worth the money. You can scan his base, but he cannot see yours.

I was highly tempted to just open this thread, hit reply, and type in "Nerf Observer burst dmg" XD

6 turrets seems really expensive though D: I guess the knowledge denied might be worth it, but the idea of spending 600 minerals on static d that can't be salvaged so early on scares me.

[Purewasted]

Observers are good, I might say they border on "too good" only because they can be out so much faster than a raven. People may shout turrets but 5-6 mins in, any money spend on a turret / eb will have to come from somewhere else and I just dont want to sink that money down unless I see a dark shrine. If observers are coming so soon and dont require a building anymore, id like to see them scaled back a bit so you have to tech to make them as strong as they are now.

ie... if theyre basic, make them visible and throw in a cheap tech on a higher tier building like fleet beacon or the robotics upgrade building.



Well, obviously you'd like that because it would play perfectly into your build and make Observers a non-issue. But they're SUPPOSED to be an issue to your build.

Eng Bay is an absolute must ATM for infantry upgrades, the earlier the better, so there's no reason not to have it. Plop down 3 Missile Turrets to cover your base and you're golden. They won't do much versus air, but for a single 225 mineral investment you can totally nullify his ability to scout what you have. Remember: observers are all he has. There's no magical "click to reveal map" back-up plan. And for every Observer you make obsolete (dead, or he's just too scared to send it in), that's 100 resources he wastes, 75 of which is gas. And production time that could have been spent on Immos or Cols.

lol@first 3 replies that did not even bother to read OP's post.

I'm sure they read it. I read it, too. The OP doesn't like the solution... well, I can't blame him, but I also can't offer him anything other than a rationale on why it's an excellent investment.

[Kranden]

Or you could stop crying just make ghost and MMM and steamroll any toss army as emp takes out half their HP in one shot.

[Sentrysteve]

I think the command center's scan ability is your answer. I'm not a top level player but it seems like if your opponent is constantly scouting you then you have no choice but to either scan his base to counter whatever he's building or to scan your own to reveal his obs. You would reply with "but I need that energy for my mule" but what good is a temporarily increased economy if you're entire army is already countered.

Observers are strong, there's no doubt about that, and I wouldn't mind seeing them move slightly slower but from what I read here most Terran's seem to think there's absolutely nothing they can do about them and they're completely screwed.

[Purewasted]

I think the command center's scan ability is your answer. I'm not a top level player but it seems like if your opponent is constantly scouting you then you have no choice but to either scan his base to counter whatever he's building or to scan your own to reveal his obs. You would reply with "but I need that energy for my mule" but what good is a temporarily increased economy if you're entire army is already countered.

Observers are strong, there's no doubt about that, and I wouldn't mind seeing them move slightly slower but from what I read here most Terran's seem to think there's absolutely nothing they can do about them and they're completely screwed.

A Scan could miss completely and end up costing you 270 minerals for absolutely nothing, while 3 Turrets for just 30 more will provide constant detection and GtA, and destroy all of his "constant" scouting.

I have no idea why you glossed over MTs.

[Unauthorized]

Have you tried to just use turrets at critical points? I.E. If you're going banshees and you don't want them to know about your starports, grid your turrets around your starports. If you manage it correctly, it shouldn't take too much out of your unit production, and secures the points you want to stay hidden/protected.

Note : I do understand that terran are lacking in 2 aspects. 1. their mobility (toss have proxy, zerg have nydus, terran has... nothing), Along with their inability to scout fast and cheap. But blizzard wanted it this way. compare your economic boost via the mule, to the toss eco boost via chrono. Your mule wins hands down. therefor, the comsat doesn't sacrafice as much as you think in terms of balance.

[Johan]

Well, obviously you'd like that because it would play perfectly into your build and make Observers a non-issue. But they're SUPPOSED to be an issue to your build.

Eng Bay is an absolute must ATM for infantry upgrades, the earlier the better, so there's no reason not to have it. Plop down 3 Missile Turrets to cover your base and you're golden. They won't do much versus air, but for a single 225 mineral investment you can totally nullify his ability to scout what you have. Remember: observers are all he has. There's no magical "click to reveal map" back-up plan. And for every Observer you make obsolete (dead, or he's just too scared to send it in), that's 100 resources he wastes, 75 of which is gas. And production time that could have been spent on Immos or Cols.



I'm sure they read it. I read it, too. The OP doesn't like the solution... well, I can't blame him, but I also can't offer him anything other than a rationale on why it's an excellent investment.

Oh I aaalways get an engie bay and I nearly always get turrets even though I dislike spending the cash on them. Terrans are so dependent on our upgrades I'd only skip engie bay if I was going pure mech, and even then I usually get one just in case :P I think you're wrong on a denied observer is wasted though. Even if I can manage to secure my base he could always put the observer to use scouting expansions or keeping an eye on high traffic routes.

I think I've found a temporary solution to the whole TvP issue with fast hellion rushes. If I can damage his economy enough his knowledge of my forces doesn't help him and I seem to be able to get hellions out before he can get his observer. Unfortunately I've only managed to play 1 protoss haven't gotten to experience the flaws of this strat yet. I think 9 out of my 10 games today was TvT :S

Or you could stop crying just make ghost and MMM and steamroll any toss army as emp takes out half their HP in one shot.

Or I could play non-retarded protoss who know how to not put all their units in one big pile and let me EMP their entire army. Thanks for the pro tips though, I've never thought of trying MMM or EMP before.

[Sentrysteve]

I have no idea why you glossed over MTs.

MTs would require too much of an investment to be useful, unless you do what the poster above me suggested but even then I'm not sure if a single MT would prevent the obs from scouting the building.

[Johan]

Have you tried to just use turrets at critical points? I.E. If you're going banshees and you don't want them to know about your starports, grid your turrets around your starports. If you manage it correctly, it shouldn't take too much out of your unit production, and secures the points you want to stay hidden/protected.

Note : I do understand that terran are lacking in 2 aspects. 1. their mobility (toss have proxy, zerg have nydus, terran has... nothing), Along with their inability to scout fast and cheap. But blizzard wanted it this way. compare your economic boost via the mule, to the toss eco boost via chrono. Your mule wins hands down. therefor, the comsat doesn't sacrafice as much as you think in terms of balance.



I've tried, it's pretty difficult to cover all your bases though, especially if I'm trying to cover 2 starports. Those things are massive :( Though maybe I should be crafty and hide some proxy starports and give him the ol sneaky sneaks... Hmm... It would be pretty difficult to scout starports if they're not in my base... maybe that would work.

[Purewasted]

MTs would require too much of an investment to be useful, unless you do what the poster above me suggested but even then I'm not sure if a single MT would prevent the obs from scouting the building.

Tech scouting is only a part of the OP's issue. Another part he noted was that the Observer gave the P total knowledge of the OP's army make-up. This part, at least, is perfectly solved by Missile Turrets, unless the P is sitting on the observer and watching patiently as it gets into the base. From my experience most are fire and forget... they assume they can check it out in 30 seconds, whenever they have a moment. By then the Obs ought to be dead.

Now there's still the issue of the P knowing your tech... that is, he got an Obs into your base, your MTs killed it dead, but it still saw your two Starports with attached Tech Labs. Not a lot of guess work needed to figure out what that's building there, right? Thing is, you also know exactly what he has. Without wasting a single SCV or Scan, or a moment of your time, you know that he has a Robo Bay and is well on his way to pumping either Immos or Collies or both. At 4 minutes into the game, that dead Obs is a blessing in disguise.

[Waimbes]

Yeah i was about to suggest that. I play protoss a lot and one thing that always gets me, even if i have a few observers, is when the T build buildings in surprising places. If i scout your base and I see a bunch of structures that i expect, I'm probably gonna decide that my scouting is done and check the other expansions. Unless the map is really tiny, I cant effectively scout the entire thing. I do a similar thing as PvT sometimes: if I'm gonna try and proxy, i will build a templar archives and dark shrine way outside where they would scan, let them think they are gonna face zealots, stalkers, sentries and then surprise them. Hiding buildings is a great strat sometimes.

[Skybound]

This isn't a result of the observer being too powerful, it's you not defending yourself from it. A couple missile turrets are completely sufficient. Without the upgraded speed, missile turrets can take an observer out faster than it can possibly escape once it starts getting hit. It's especially weak against Zerg with all of the overlords partolling their base.

I do think it's a little easier to get observers now, though, since we're missing the observatory from Starcraft 1 which made it so that you had to make an additional investment to get observers. However, it's a weak unit, and unlike Terran's comsat you have to be able to get your observer into the base to actually be able to see what's going on (meaning any kind of air defense will completely deter the observer.)

I think it's a perfectly reasonable unit. It's one of the easiest things to prepare yourself for early game.

[Whitelight]

lol everyone is saying the same 2 things here so thankfully i am going to say something different...firstoff you should never waste a scan on an observer unless you plan on doing something unexpected between the time it dies and another one pops it is useless... also getting more than 2 turrets just to kill 1 observer is already giving the toss an advantage

My Solution... (its pretty simple) is you leave the observer and dont worry about it! If you are concentrated on taking down an ob then it takes away from working on our army and figuring out what buildings/units they are getting to kill yours so you can counter that! As a plat terran i will see the ob and go ok cool hes scouting me I will then scout him see if i have an advantgae and decide what to do, if i attack i will know he is watching me but because i also know that i should be able to beat him!

I could go and say scanner is OP because i can scout out an entire base and they cant do anything about it but that doesnt make it true...I dont know after alot of toss game is i have every killed an ob in my base but i still have a crazy win ratio against toss after they get an ob out

[Krazytrumpet]

Would you like some durr with your hurr?

Raven's require a starport, and a tech lab.

Observers simply requires a robotics facility.

Protoss will get observers out before your ravens. If they so wanted to they could probably put an observer on every mineral patch before you get even one raven out.
Comsat scan is free. Only costs energy. Point, set, MATCH!

[Levio]

Missile. Turret.

"Missile turret costs too much!"

Do you think the observers are free....?

[Crisischild]

You're being a bit dramatic don't you think? You're making it sound like Observers can one shot every unit in the game from half the map away and cost no resources and can see a quarter of the map at a time. You also make it sound like COMSAT and Turrets are useless and you're actually fighting a real war.


Terran get the most annoying detectors in the game. Turrets hit hard, detect, and are cheap. Raven is just plain awesome, people need to learn to use it. COMSAT...Once you have an expansion or two you can find out what's going on at any part of the map for the cost of an infinitely renewable resource whenever you want to. And as a primarily 'Toss player don't even get me started on EMP. If you can't combat invisible units as Terran you are doing it wrong.

From your original post you seem to be saying you don't want to have to spend resources to see invisible units, which is just stupid. What would the point of cloaking be if everyone could see them for free? Terran pay the least of the three races to detect invis and they can do it 90 seconds in to a game.

[Nogreatname]

Won't someone think of the zerg.

Their information warfare is AWFUL compared to the other two.

[Gearvosh]

I like how all the responses in the thread sound like they didn't even read OPs post.

[Purewasted]

I like how all the responses in the thread sound like they didn't even read OPs post.

I like how you sound like you haven't even read the thread, and didn't know that that same point has already been made, and replied to, on the previous page. My response for your convenience:

I'm sure they read it. I read it, too. The OP doesn't like the solution... well, I can't blame him, but I also can't offer him anything other than a rationale on why it's an excellent investment.

[Johan]

I like how you sound like you haven't even read the thread, and didn't know that that same point has already been made, and replied to, on the previous page. My response for your convenience:



Judging by most of the recent posts I think most people haven't read the thread, too, and are just seeing the first post :S I was more interested in finding out what other people thought about the availability and cost of observers compared to their usefulness rather than counters, though I did ask for tips. Maybe I should edit that into the first post so that hopefully more people see it.

Also, if any zergs want to give their input on observers I'd like to know. I have no experience with zerg so I'd like to know what they think about observers :P

Edit: And I can totally see this thread coming off as a whine but again it's not