Out of Pure curiosity (Roaches)

[Septima]

Out of pride I have refraimed from making a topic about this before, or asking this at any time. But since the Help tab for Units is no help, nor can I find anyone knowledgeable enough (without pestering plat players, which I will not do.)

What unit counters Roaches for zerg? BESIDES MORE ROACHES.

I am having a frustrating time playing Z/Z, since its more than likely that each round turns into a roach spamming fest, since Zerglings don't work, I laughed when a failed baneling try...failed. And I've heard Hydralisks do the job but how in the hell am i supposed to come up with Hydras faster than someone can wipe me with Roaches?

And if the answer is spine crawlers I WILL facepalm. Physically.

[Crisischild]

Bro Lords!

[Septima]

Bro Lords!

I really, really, really hope that is /sarcasm there.

Troll alert!

[Mbojangles]

More roach's. Really early game its all you got, it comes down to a war of roach's. You can tech to either hydra or muta, but early on you will really just need to match his roach's 1 to 1. I don't like it either.

[Crisischild]

I really, really, really hope that is /sarcasm there.

Troll alert!

Lol, they're a great counter! You just have to hold the enemy off for ten minutes.

[Wingless]

Zerg only have 9 combat units. your not going to have many options no matter what plus Mirror games are always the most boring.

Honestly its only roaches for a counter till you get mutas. I wouldn't even want to mass hydras against roaches. Zerg have no +armor dmg anywhere and banelings are only fieldable against light units.

[Clutch]

I need to test this but I think Muta/Baneling might be the ticket. I don't expect Banelings to kill many Roaches... instead, I plan to focus on taking out important buildings and drones. Anyone try this yet?

[Suicidemech]

Banelings unfortunately do about 20 damage to armored units.

[Clutch]

Banelings unfortunately do about 20 damage to armored units.

Do buildings have a lot of armor? Or did you just misinterpret what I was saying?

[Rowdy]

Zerglings can end the game before Roaches reach a certain count. After that, Roaches are superior to any other ground options. Most players add in Hydralisks when they reach Lair tech, but Hydras aren't necessarily better than Roaches in cost for cost battles. The reason you use Hydras is because when you reach a certain Roach count, additional Roaches get stuck maneuvering during battle rather than firing. Hydras can begin firing right away with their superior range, bringing more damage at the point of contact. They can also be used to shoot down Overseers, allowing Roaches to Burrow-heal with impunity, and they counter Mutalisks.

Mutalisks seem to end some ZVZ games, but that has more to do with a lack of scouting in my experience than any inherent strengths of Mutalisks. In fact, I've seen several ZVZs in which mass Roaches beat Mutalisks simply by forcing them to defend and using Burrow in conjunction with the Hive regeneration upgrade to take minimal damage (even from focused fire) while taking out buildings one by one.

I haven't seen anyone try to use Banelings, Infestors, Ultralisks, or Brood Lords in ZVZ, but I question whether any of those options would be effective against the standard Hydra/Roach/Overseer.

[Mnijykmirl]

Baneling do 15 damage to armored units. It takes 10 banelings to kill a siege tank.

I'm just glad this is a beta. Game shouldn't even launch until Z gets at least one more unit. Z and P both need major work for their metagame, and Z almost need a rework.

[Hoticehunter]

Do buildings have a lot of armor? Or did you just misinterpret what I was saying?

There's armor points, and there's what type of armor a unit has, light or armored which armor points have no factor on. Zerglings, Zealots, Marines are light. Roaches, Marauders, Stalkers are armored.

Buildings are all the armored type as far as I know.

[Clutch]

Baneling do 15 damage to armored units. It takes 10 banelings to kill a siege tank.

I'm just glad this is a beta. Game shouldn't even launch until Z gets at least one more unit. Z and P both need major work for their metagame, and Z almost need a rework.

Again, the Banelings purpose is to take out buildings and Drones, not the Roaches. Instead of trying to kill their army, you starve it instead. My experience is that Banelings have no problem hitting Roaches... Roaches don't do enough damage to stop them but they just shrug off the puny damage. However, this also means that they aren't going to be able to stop them from blowing up buildings very easily.

Meanwhile... gather Mutas to handle the few roaches they are able to muster while they try to rebuild.

[Azkit]

Banelings have a separate attack against structures. The attack against structures deals 80 damage (+5 per upgrade).

[Clutch]

Banelings have a separate attack against structures. The attack against structures deals 80 damage (+5 per upgrade).

Thanks! Something wasn't adding up... I've found Banelings to be great for ambushing bases.

[paradox]

need to make sure your have a better econ (more drones mineing) and get a dmg upgrade while keeping about the same number of roaches. and when you can get to hydra. throwing in a few lings if you have the extra min help as well since lings will probably enter combat first giving your roaches a good hit or 2 advantage

[Septima]

Thanks for your help everyone, it really is appreciated.

I am just not impressed at all with Mirror matches, and these are bound to occur in high level play OR tourny play. I just can't see this being viable when already constricted Tech Trees are further restricted by Mirror Matches.

Again thanks for the help and I hope to play with you guys soon.

[Benzenn]

What unit counters Roaches for zerg? BESIDES MORE ROACHES.
Playing as Zerg, I found that having a nice mixture of Hydras in my force help defend against roaches in a mirror match. Also, building air to ground units can help since roaches can only attack ground units and buildings. I would recommend experimenting to see what works best for you. :)

[Shiladie]

Playing as Zerg, I found that having a nice mixture of Hydras in my force help defend against roaches in a mirror match. Also, building air to ground units can help since roaches can only attack ground units and buildings. I would recommend experimenting to see what works best for you. :)

you may be blue, but that doesn't mean you know WTF you are talking about...
'air to ground units' really?
have you even played ZvZ at anything above copper?
The entire ZvZ matchup is all timing the following things:

When to start building roaches
when to expand, to allow more roaches
when to get roach upgrades
when to get hive for roach regen
when to get hydras (generally this one is only if you scout them getting mutas.


That is the entirety of ZvZ, at least at the platinum level
I spent about 50 games testing different things in ZvZ, and found that deviating from the above build just got me strings of losses.

[Neimane]

you may be blue, but that doesn't mean you know WTF you are talking about...
'air to ground units' really?
have you even played ZvZ at anything above copper?
The entire ZvZ matchup is all timing the following things:

When to start building roaches
when to expand, to allow more roaches
when to get roach upgrades
when to get hive for roach regen
when to get hydras (generally this one is only if you scout them getting mutas.


Air units = devastate roaches? and once I get a decent amount of roaches I attack, do some damage, then get to hydras as fast as possible, works great

[Shiladie]

Air units = devastate roaches? and once I get a decent amount of roaches I attack, do some damage, then get to hydras as fast as possible, works great

Mutas SUCK vs roaches, you CAN use mutas to hit drones, but once he gets out about half the cost you spent on mutas in hydras, you back off and lose the game.

I actually avoid going mass hydras even, I just spend my money on more roaches and roach regen, I have yet to lose to a hydra or muta build since deciding not to try anything new in ZvZ

[Neimane]

Roaches still can't attack air units.so....even if the mutas couldn't kill the roaches, they could still hit the base pretty hard.

[revenge]

you may be blue, but that doesn't mean you know WTF you are talking about...
'air to ground units' really?
have you even played ZvZ at anything above copper?
The entire ZvZ matchup is all timing the following things:

When to start building roaches
when to expand, to allow more roaches
when to get roach upgrades
when to get hive for roach regen
when to get hydras (generally this one is only if you scout them getting mutas.


That is the entirety of ZvZ, at least at the platinum level
I spent about 50 games testing different things in ZvZ, and found that deviating from the above build just got me strings of losses.

When trying your deviated strategies, do you try them in matches, or 1v1 with a friend? a lot of strategies I've had looked good on paper, but were horrible when I tried them out. I tweaked them a bit in 1v1's with friends, and now they are what I roll with.

[Shiladie]

Roaches still can't attack air units.so....even if the mutas couldn't kill the roaches, they could still hit the base pretty hard.

At the same time the roaches he has walk over to your base and kill you, also if he scouted spire going up (which isn't hard for somebody who knows how to use changelings) then he already has a few hydras in his base ready to fight off your mutas

Then we look at the fact that even if he has 0 hydras, if you invest in mutas, his roach army is larger and rolls into your base. Roaches are MUCH more efficient at killing buildings, so he wins the 'destroy all buildings' race between roaches and mutas.

Mutas only work if you catch the other player completely sideways with them after you already have an economic lead from before.

[Fictional]

I feel the same way too about roaches in a ZvZ match.. you can't do anything but spam roaches.. if you try to get air you will just get out roached! and the armor is so strong on the roaches i feel mutas don't do much unless you have a bigger mass then roaches. something does need to be done and i hope blizzard realizes this!

[Shiladie]

When trying your deviated strategies, do you try them in matches, or 1v1 with a friend? a lot of strategies I've had looked good on paper, but were horrible when I tried them out. I tweaked them a bit in 1v1's with friends, and now they are what I roll with.

I invite you to play me in any ZvZ
The number of people going through the phase I went through, where I was trying everything possible is funny, because everyone hopes beyond hope that there is something more to ZvZ then they've found, because what they've found SUCKS

I will absolutely rejoice if somebody can show me a build that isn't a super fast ling cheese or roaches into hydras that actually works against other good zergs, because I've looked, I've tried, I've lost game after game looking for it to no avail.

blizzard, simply look at my ZvZ record, it went from 50% learning the game with everyone at the start of beta to 5%(as I tried different strats) to 90% as I realized there was nothing but roaches...

[mike]

Eh in ZvZ i've found Zling rushes to be very solid.
make sure their scout sees you building a roach den, chase ovie away with queen, cancel roach den, zling swarm their base. Can normally do enough damage to hamper their gathering to be able to have enough zligns to swarm over any roaches.

Mind in plat matches, This is anticipated, and most players won't roach rush but get a few zlings and a spinecrawler before breaking out roaches. But in lower tiers some zergs can't do anything except "must get more roaches and must get them fast" lol

[Fictional]

Honestly the blue isnt wrong. If you want to do something besides get more roaches you have to get hydras or mutas. Granted you can also expand counter, upgrade, whatever but that just falls under the category of more roaches.

yea.. if you can expand get hydras and tech air while he is massing roaches into your base..

[Disastorm]

Out of pride I have refraimed from making a topic about this before, or asking this at any time. But since the Help tab for Units is no help, nor can I find anyone knowledgeable enough (without pestering plat players, which I will not do.)

What unit counters Roaches for zerg? BESIDES MORE ROACHES.

I am having a frustrating time playing Z/Z, since its more than likely that each round turns into a roach spamming fest, since Zerglings don't work, I laughed when a failed baneling try...failed. And I've heard Hydralisks do the job but how in the hell am i supposed to come up with Hydras faster than someone can wipe me with Roaches?

And if the answer is spine crawlers I WILL facepalm. Physically.
The answer is there is no counter for roaches other than more roaches at the early game. In the Mid-game the counter for roaches is Roach + Hydra combo. Also, it is a common misconception that some people believe lings can counter roaches in the early game, as I used to believe that, but while it is possible to catch them off guard and defeat them with lings, it is not a counter. It will only work if the opponent is teching up, expanding, or has bad unit positioning. Otherwise, a player going for pure roaches will at all points in time be able to defend against speedlings from a player going for pure speedlings.

[Messana]

I invite you to play me in any ZvZ
The number of people going through the phase I went through, where I was trying everything possible is funny, because everyone hopes beyond hope that there is something more to ZvZ then they've found, because what they've found SUCKS

I will absolutely rejoice if somebody can show me a build that isn't a super fast ling cheese or roaches into hydras that actually works against other good zergs, because I've looked, I've tried, I've lost game after game looking for it to no avail.

blizzard, simply look at my ZvZ record, it went from 50% learning the game with everyone at the start of beta to 5%(as I tried different strats) to 90% as I realized there was nothing but roaches...
I understand your passion for this. I share it. But, Blizzard has already acknowledged that they know ZvZ is a snore/roach fest and are looking to add more "diversity" to ZvZ so fear not, it will change :)
(Speaking to Justin Bowder's Twitter QA, not the blue offering um...advice in this thread :)

[Zaq]

Playing as Zerg, I found that having a nice mixture of Hydras in my force help defend against roaches in a mirror match. Also, building air to ground units can help since roaches can only attack ground units and buildings. I would recommend experimenting to see what works best for you. :)

Roaches are tier 1.5 units, if the counter to them involves having a a mass of two differente type of teir 2 units that are more expensive in every way... don't you see the issue? Why would someone do this instead of just massing roaches themselves.

[Bestmarine]

you may be blue, but that doesn't mean you know WTF you are talking about...
'air to ground units' really?
have you even played ZvZ at anything above copper?
The entire ZvZ matchup is all timing the following things:

When to start building roaches
when to expand, to allow more roaches
when to get roach upgrades
when to get hive for roach regen
when to get hydras (generally this one is only if you scout them getting mutas.


That is the entirety of ZvZ, at least at the platinum level
I spent about 50 games testing different things in ZvZ, and found that deviating from the above build just got me strings of losses.

Good point. The blue posters work for blizzard, which can only mean that they are trying to play the game the way they wanted it to work, instead of what is best in the eyes of an efficient player. They do all sorts of strange and unique things when they play, and will eventually get stomped by angry angry players.

[Leto]

Roaches are tier 1.5 units, if the counter to them involves having a a mass of two differente type of teir 2 units that are more expensive in every way... don't you see the issue? Why would someone do this instead of just massing roaches themselves.

Tier 2 isn't the issue, immortals counter roaches nicely and immortals are tier 2. The problem is that hydralisks and mutalisks aren't cost effective against roaches. Zerg needs a tier 2 unit that can counter roaches.

[Crisischild]

Tier 2 isn't the issue, immortals counter roaches nicely and immortals are tier 2. The problem is that hydralisks and mutalisks aren't cost effective against roaches. Zerg needs a tier 2 unit that can counter roaches.


Roach Wall with Hydras behind.

Crackling wall with Hydras behind.

Boomling wall with Hydras behind.


'Course I'm the worst Zerg player ever. I just mass Boomlings and Hydras for everything.

[Zaq]

Tier 2 isn't the issue, immortals counter roaches nicely and immortals are tier 2. The problem is that hydralisks and mutalisks aren't cost effective against roaches. Zerg needs a tier 2 unit that can counter roaches.

Well, that's exactly what i was saying. He's discussing ZvZ specifically so immortals don't really enter into the equation.

[Lykos]

Couldn't you throw in some infestors to aoe damage them? That damage can be great and I wouldn't count out zerglings. You have to upgrade them though and mix them in.

[Sludge]

you may be blue, but that doesn't mean you know WTF you are talking about...
'air to ground units' really?
have you even played ZvZ at anything above copper?
The entire ZvZ matchup is all timing the following things:

When to start building roaches
when to expand, to allow more roaches
when to get roach upgrades
when to get hive for roach regen
when to get hydras (generally this one is only if you scout them getting mutas.


That is the entirety of ZvZ, at least at the platinum level
I spent about 50 games testing different things in ZvZ, and found that deviating from the above build just got me strings of losses.


So a blue answers a thread (which is extremely rare). He attempts (successfully imo) to be helpful, provides some information based on what works for him and what do you do? act like a child.

Seriously, there's no need to be so condescending when you're responding to someone, especially when he was just trying to help out.

With that said, I scout a LOT when I'm Z v Z , and I directly counter what the other guy is doing...meaning if I see roaches, I bypass them, mass up zerglings while teching to muta's (What's that? an air to ground unit?) as fast as possible. Usually their response to muta's is to go hydras, which is what I have the zergling's for....

I find it works. Obviously not all the time.

[Dronmor]

i've never had trouble fending off roaches with my speedlings

[Stevenash]

Supereior micro goes a long way. If you can manage to keep your roach count up and micro them away from battle to regen hp fast enough, then you will win. Or atleast keep you alive long enough to tech up to hydras/mutalisks.

[Neberus]

in ZvZ is sure opponent will go roaches, so I, but i always try a Zling rush bc if he go direct to roaches, and if he didnt make any Zling, hes dead if not its a good way to harras and scout his build

[Windraven]

Roaches right now are kinda like RoC hunts. Easily spammable, very durable units that do their damage through attrition more than anything else.

Eventually though, huntresses found a weakness in TFT thanks to their unarmored type. Roaches will probably evolve similarly. As SC2 expands as a game, roaches will start filling more of a niche, and other options both within zerg and in the other races will bring roaches to a good place.

As it stands, you can't really do much to roaches because on their own, they're not terribly OP. The game just hasn't caught up to them yet.

Also, it's a pity that "noobelf" doesn't translate well to zerg.

[Minos]

you may be blue, but that doesn't mean you know WTF you are talking about...


Im gonna halfway agree with you. In the sense that i think one of you dont know WTF you are talking about, and since the blue is part of the team that helped make this game, im gonna assume he's right and trying to give you a push in the right direction. Also, since i've tried this tactic in the past, im going to further assume the blue is right. But thats just me.

[Triangleman]

So a blue answers a thread (which is extremely rare). He attempts (successfully imo) to be helpful, provides some information based on what works for him and what do you do? act like a child.

Seriously, there's no need to be so condescending when you're responding to someone, especially when he was just trying to help out.

With that said, I scout a LOT when I'm Z v Z , and I directly counter what the other guy is doing...meaning if I see roaches, I bypass them, mass up zerglings while teching to muta's (What's that? an air to ground unit?) as fast as possible. Usually their response to muta's is to go hydras, which is what I have the zergling's for....

I find it works. Obviously not all the time.

this only works if the enemy fails to scout ie if the enemy sucks. if you are massing lings until mutas then the enemy has a pretty good window to roll your base with roaches before you tech lair and build a spire

the only way I could see it working is if you teched to lair extremely fast and blocked your choke with spine crawlers. But even then, it would be extremely easy to scout and punish.

[Suicidemech]

Funny because the replays I've seen boil down to roach v roach or roach/hydra vs roach/muta.

Roach muta tends to win though...

[Apollo]

LoL, you got balls of steel bro.

[mark]

Personally, whenever I face ZVZ I assume zerg is going roaches until I know better. I win these matches by going:

13 hatch
14 or 15 vespene
after this i spam zerglings, research speed upgrades,
16 queen
and harass opponent's workers until i get mutalisks. I'll often run right past roaches and just kite them with speedlings. It has worked quite well for me. Run into mineral line, take out 1-2 drones, run out, attack another building.

Depending on map size, 2 hatch can give you enough zerglings to completely overwhelm someone rushing roaches. I've been able to pull this off in 15+ games, even on kulas ravine.

Typically the initial zergling rush of 8 zerglings will completely cripple the opposing zerg player. By the time i've got speed upgrades, I'm toying with their roaches. If they haven't gg'd I switch to either roaches and out micro them with 2hatch+queen, or tech to mutas and push out 5-8 of them. GG

Then again I'm in the bronze league, what do I know?

[Nephrahim]

I might try the speedlings. I tried the 6pool once and got stomped.

[mark]

Eh in ZvZ i've found Zling rushes to be very solid.
make sure their scout sees you building a roach den, chase ovie away with queen, cancel roach den, zling swarm their base. Can normally do enough damage to hamper their gathering to be able to have enough zligns to swarm over any roaches.

Mind in plat matches, This is anticipated, and most players won't roach rush but get a few zlings and a spinecrawler before breaking out roaches. But in lower tiers some zergs can't do anything except "must get more roaches and must get them fast" lol

LoL I did this against someone today. Cancelled the roach warren the second the probe was out of LOS and started matching hatch #2. Very quick game when they started pumping out immortals and i'm massing speedlings. Good times.


(oh and just to save y'all time, "cool story bro.")




I might try the speedlings. I tried the 6pool once and got stomped.


I've tried this a few times but never have the econ and end up fighting a losing battle.

[Rigly]

'air to ground units' really?

When to start building roaches
when to expand, to allow more roaches
when to get roach upgrades
when to get hive for roach regen
when to get hydras (generally this one is only if you scout them getting mutas.

That is the entirety of ZvZ, at least at the platinum level
I spent about 50 games testing different things in ZvZ, and found that deviating from the above build just got me strings of losses.

uh, it's obvious he means air units that hit ground units.

and it's pretty damn obvious the whole game is about timing your tech and units.

you're really not lecturing anyone here.

[Savarashii]

you may be blue, but that doesn't mean you know WTF you are talking about...
'air to ground units' really?
have you even played ZvZ at anything above copper?

I smell some epic douchebaggery here.

[Minos]

LoL, you got balls of steel bro.

hardly. he's just an insecure teen with hormonal issues.

[Resistance]

My last ZvsZ battle I teched straight to mutas thinking that he would just build a mass roach army.... Needless to say I was right and I destroyed his base. He sent all his roaches to my base as soon as the air units attacked, but I started building some spinecrawlers right before I sent my air units in, anticipating that he would send all his roaches as soon as my mutas attacked.

The game was fast enough where it wasn't possible for either side to do any real scouting, so he didn't know I was going straight for mutas.

[Etravex]

you may be blue, but that doesn't mean you know WTF you are talking about...
'air to ground units' really?
have you even played ZvZ at anything above copper?
The entire ZvZ matchup is all timing the following things:

When to start building roaches
when to expand, to allow more roaches
when to get roach upgrades
when to get hive for roach regen
when to get hydras (generally this one is only if you scout them getting mutas.


That is the entirety of ZvZ, at least at the platinum level
I spent about 50 games testing different things in ZvZ, and found that deviating from the above build just got me strings of losses.

In answer your initial question: there is nothing you CAN do. ZvZ (if you are fighting decent players) it will always become Roach v Roach battle and who can out micro the other while building more Roaches.

If you did what blue said then the other zerg player (if he's good) will see you teching and either mass produce more roaches and overpower your less weak roach army or tech up with you. Either way the best advice I can give you for ZvZ is get Burrow asap. That way you can micro-burrow.

[Zulgaro]

In answer your initial question: there is nothing you CAN do. ZvZ (if you are fighting decent players) it will always become Roach v Roach battle and who can out micro the other while building more Roaches.

If you did what blue said then the other zerg player (if he's good) will see you teching and either mass produce more roaches and overpower your less weak roach army or tech up with you. Either way the best advice I can give you for ZvZ is get Burrow asap. That way you can micro-burrow.

Completely new to beta (in fact, just one my first game last night) so I might be missing something, but the zerg have an air-to-ground flyer that can only attack ground units. Can't remember the name, nor have I built them, but they have them.

Also, I recall in SC, detector units allowed you to hit burrowed units. Does that work, or am I remember wrong / not true in SCII. So, couldn't you pair up a overlord (the mutated one, not the one directly from a larva...pretty sure that was a detector) with those air-to-ground flyers and get rid of the roaches advantage (burrowing) and attack burn them out without suffering any troop losses?

Edit: Also, is there a place where you can look up all the different building/unit info? Strangely enough, I don't seem to have a lot of time during the actual game to read all of this up +)

[Wwwzugzugorc]

fix roach armor k thnx
2 armor on a 1 food unit is stupid

[Shiladie]

Wow, some people in here are pretty retarded...
Lets start by saying this:
Yes speedling will ruin a zerg who stupidly goes straight to roaches skipping all lings, but all you have to do is make 4-6 lings so you can survive vs the 8-10 he sends at you (you have a queen and drones to help defend)
At which point you then have roaches, wall the ramp, get critical mass and move out. They key to beating speedlings is to always wall your choke with a few roaches, and always have roaches being made, the way a speedling build keeps you busy until mutas is by keeping you in your base by threatening a backstab.

Now, for scouting mutas, if you go roaches, you should be getting lair at 100% queen, because any decent BO will have the 100 gas at exactly that timing, then, when lair finishes you make sure to have 200 gas in the bank, not hard because you'll be capping roach production from minerals not gas if you took both gas. Spend that 200 on morphing your overlord scout near his choke into an overseer and getting roach speed.

When the overseer finishes, immediately spawn a changling outside their ramp, fly the overseer around an edge and send the changling in the front at the same time, this lets you easily see his lair timing/unit comp/if he has a spire building.

Now, you react accordingly, if he expands, wait until the hatch finishes and pumps out a queen and 2-3 workers before hitting it, this is the point you'll be up 600 minerals on him (300+150+150) which is of course 8 roaches, a massive amount. You can run in, snipe the queen, snipe the hatch and possibly clear out his army.

If somebody goes mutas, get hydras, and keep half+1 the number of mutas he has in hydras in each base and a few more then that with your army. If he is attempting to 1-base muta he will have such a low production rate of them, he will never get critical mass to storm either base from behind before you roll him over.

If you are not going mutas, and you see the other person getting hydras, pull scouting overlords to safe places, and split your pure roach army into 2, one half in your nat the other hidden a short distance from your nat. When he attacks with his combo force, fall back slightly with the roaches in the nat, so that his army is right in the choke, then hit him from both sides, the roaches in the back will decimate the unprotected hydras, while the ones in the front will keep the roaches busy until you mop up.
If he splits his roaches so he has some in front and behind, there will not be enough roaches on either to stop you from bumrushing into melee range so you can micro to pick off hydras. This works better if you have burrow and he has no overseer there, but then, if it's that situation, you win no matter what if you micro with half a brain.

If you are facing a speedling muta build, just make sure your hydras are in the middle of your roaches and your roaches don't move ahead of the hydras, also make damn sure to get armour upgs asap, as negating lings and muta's bounce comes easy with 1-2 armour upgs.

Other zvz tips to stop people trying to innovate:
Always always have 2 overseers, 1 near his base and 1 near yours, the one near his base should be spawning changlings whenever you have the energy/APM for it to scout what he's doing
If you scout banelings, block your choke like with speedlings, then laugh and kill him
Keep an overlord at each 'hidden' expansion to prevent an unknown expansions
If he goes mutas, get overlord speed and pull overlords back to hydra protection, use changelings a lot more to scout for expansions
If he goes infestors, laugh and kill him, if he has infestors and wins he would have won anyways
Mutas suck at killing roaches, do not be afraid to just kill his base under a cloud of mutas if you managed to lose your hydras, if you lose all your roaches, but he loses his spire+workers, you win because you just macro up a few spore colonys+hydras and defend for a min before moving out and killing him for good
If you scout any kind of fast tech forgoing units, just stomp his base, if he mass spine crawlers to defend it, just contain+expand and get hydras, because he's 90% going air behind the wall

TBH yes, cute strats work at lower skill levels, but once you hit the people that know how to scout, and what to do with that info, they all fall apart and only mass roach remains.

[sc2scoorge]

upgrade Zerglings :D speed up lings own roaches