Any toss players winning as of late?

[Evade]

I was Silver rank 1 with 2000 points compared to silver rank 2 with 1750 2 days ago. However since then, I've lost about 80-90% of my games against terran and zerg.

Seems like every time I play against Terran they either scv/marine rush me, or make two tiny cloaked ghosts to EMP half my army, effectively taking half my army away, removing all caster energy and taking down all my guardian shields.

Every time I play against zerg, they mass lings, contain me, early expand, then mass muta's. Very rarely will I get roach rushed, but that often works too cause I'm always trying to counter the inevitable ling/muta combo.

Only fair fight these days for me are against other toss.

Thinking of throwing in the towel as a toss plater till they get fixed.

I'm wondering if other toss players have been getting owned more than usual the past few days

[Static]

I was Silver rank 1 with 2000 points compared to silver rank 2 with 1750 2 days ago. However since then, I've lost about 80-90% of my games against terran and zerg.

Seems like every time I play against Terran they either scv/marine rush me, or make two tiny cloaked ghosts to EMP half my army, effectively taking half my army away, removing all caster energy and taking down all my guardian shields.

Every time I play against zerg, they mass lings, contain me, early expand, then mass muta's. Very rarely will I get roach rushed, but that often works too cause I'm always trying to counter the inevitable ling/muta combo.

Only fair fight these days for me are against other toss.

Thinking of throwing in the towel as a toss plater till they get fixed.

I'm wondering if other toss players have been getting owned more than usual the past few daysBlizzard actually disagrees, and feels that Terran is currently in the poorest position in fights against other races. Or at least so they have recently said.

[Zacd]

Sounds like other people are getting better and your just sticking with your main tactic. Post replays and people can help figure out what you need to do differently to win. You can wall against a SCV/ling rush using zealots as a door.

[Evade]

Sounds like other people are getting better and your just sticking with your main tactic. Post replays and people can help figure out what you need to do differently to win. You can wall against a SCV/ling rush using zealots as a door.

SCV rushes come with 6 marines making walling off impossible

using a Z to wall off a ling rush works, but now i'm contained, he quickly expands while continuing to mass lings while conserving gas to quickly go air once his spire is done

[Zacd]

SCV rushes come with 6 marines making walling off impossible

using a Z to wall off a ling rush works, but now i'm contained, he quickly expands while continuing to mass lings while conserving gas to quickly go air once his spire is done

The spire takes forever to build, you should be attacking and scouting before they finish building it.
You can wall off to prevent the initial rush but once you have more units and extra resources expand. You should never just let your opponent expand, one game I had 6 bases with zerg, at that point the opponent is completely out resourced and theirs nothing they can do.

So make sure you don't let them have an economic edge.

Cannons can help early on from rushers but don't rely on them too much, one guy I played walled off with z and had a cannon on the high ground so he let the marines shoot his zealot door but the cannon was quicker at killing, they are also great because they are detectors so they never completely loose their value.

Please post replays.

[Butters]

My teammate was getting double teamed by an army and my 6 colossi %*##d them all, and countered ftw. was fun stuff...colossi are very powerful.

[Alexzander]

I kinda feel the same way lately. I'm a gold 1v1, and have 2 plat 2v2 teams, and as people are starting to learn the game, toss is more and more underwhelming.

There is no counter to muta, except mass Pheonix, and then your left with an AA force that blows when they quickly just go Hydra/Ling in mass in literally 1 minute.

Terran just seems to steamroll me with MM ball ghosts and a few vikings.

I even watch some of the high end players on TL or other one that play at the top of plat league on livestream, and even now they are starting to lose over and over again as toss.

If they can't figure out a way to keep winning now, how can I? :O

It seems the only thing I'm seeing from a protoss at the high level win with anymore is dozens of HT's and just storming non-stop.

[Evade]

The spire takes forever to build, you should be attacking and scouting before they finish building it.
You can wall off to prevent the initial rush but once you have more units and extra resources expand. You should never just let your opponent expand, one game I had 6 bases with zerg, at that point the opponent is completely out resourced and theirs nothing they can do.

So make sure you don't let them have an economic edge.

Cannons can help early on from rushers but don't rely on them too much, one guy I played walled off with z and had a cannon on the high ground so he let the marines shoot his zealot door but the cannon was quicker at killing, they are also great because they are detectors so they never completely loose their value.

Please post replays.

You're joking right? 6 lings can effectively keep me walled in for the first 4 or 5 minutes cause lings run faster than zealots. If I build cannons then I don't have an army. Keep in mind the zerg player has already expanded and is winning the resource war.

From that point on, his army is always bigger than mine.

[Seam]

I'm copper.

But I just switched from Terran to Protoss to test it out, and of the last 10 1v1 I've won 7 (As apposed to about 3-4 as terran)

Am I the pinnicle of skill and my world makes it all law? Maybe, but I'd rather just say it's luck (And warp prisms :3)

[Zacd]

I haven't played toss much but as zerg I've never had much luck using zerglings after the original rush a few zealots and stalkers are great against them.

upload replays so we can see why you are loosing http://www.mediafire.com/

[Shiladie]

stats show things to be fairly even, with terran being the most underused right now by a few %
asia actually has 45% of their top 8s in plat as protoss, so yes, protoss are winning right now.

[Butter]

Terran and Zerg are the most powerful races currently.

I played Protoss 1v1 in platinum for a while, then Terran discovered that EMP can be gained 8min into game. After losing 4 games in a row to Terran players, I've switched to Terran and won 90% of matches. Terran is, imo, the current strongest race by a significant margin. Granted, this in is 1v1.

In 2v2 their turtle style of gameplay does not provide support to allies in early rushes and cause difficulty unless your ally is also Terran.


Protoss is gimp as s*** right now.

[Seam]

Terran and Zerg are the most powerful races currently.



Protoss is gimp as s*** right now.

Blizz disagrees.

[Zacd]

Terran and Zerg are the most powerful races currently.

I played Protoss 1v1 in platinum for a while, then Terran discovered that EMP can be gained 8min into game. After losing 4 games in a row to Terran players, I've switched to Terran and won 90% of matches. Terran is, imo, the current strongest race by a significant margin. Granted, this in is 1v1.

In 2v2 their turtle style of gameplay does not provide support to allies in early rushes and cause difficulty unless your ally is also Terran.


Protoss is gimp as s*** right now.

Terran is actually the most underpowered race if you look at the top 10 players, most of them are toss, then zerg, and then a few terran.

[Chang]

First things first, SCOUT.

2nd of all, SCOUT.

And third, vs. zerg if you see he's got an early spawning pool and looks like he's going to attack, block the entrance to your main via zealots on ramp or if it's bigger, buildings and zealots blocking the only pathway. That will essentially block the weak zerglings.

If he goes mutalisks, then build stalkers and cannons for base protection. If he's only distracting with zerglings and massing roaches, (when you SCOUT check for roach warrens, extractors, etc.) then you yourself need to get a good mix of immortals/zealot fodder and stalkers.

Or you could just cheese it and proxy gateway at the start.

As for terran, you're just doing it wrong.

[Draelren]

I had the worst tonight with my 2s partner. We are 2v2 Platinum league players, and we went 4-8 tonight.

The Protoss in high-left games just aren't being able to be competitive as much.

The whole ability of the Zerg to instantly change their whole tech arrangement... the Protoss just can't compete. Because by the time we start amassing the units that will counter what they do... we have like what, 4 of them? By the time the Zerg has I don't know, 20?

Protoss I will say do dominate the lower end matches just because people don't know what is overpowered in the other races yet. Protoss have to choose between basically 2 paths, air or ground... and stick with it.

If you go air and the enemy goes Hydralisk? You're screwed.

If you go ground and the enemy goes Mutalisk? You're screwed. Unless the Zerg is totally incompetent.

[Krazytrumpet]

MASS CARRIERS FOR GREAT JUSTICE

[Macktimus]

Blizzard actually disagrees, and feels that Terran is currently in the poorest position in fights against other races. Or at least so they have recently said.

I think terran took the biggest change from SC1 to SC2, factory is nearly 100% useless, and some things are so OP its not funny but its what is keeping them in the game right now, emp vs toss is just brutal but its needed to survive and its a shame that they need something so broken to play.

once some more balance patches come out i can see the terran doing much better, a mech rehaul would be great, a reworking of the thor / adding a useful mech AA unit.

I feel that potentailly terran will be the strongest race again once they are figured out, but they need to be fixed so they arnt relying on broken units/spells to win.

right now protoss have taken the nerf bat to the teeth, and are barely standing, you dont win unless your opponent doesnt want a free win (all in lings / scv rush). If you avoid those you can win vs zerg with a proper timing push, and vs terran immortal / colossus but that changes to an even fight once EMP and more then 1 ghost is out.

[Frozen]

I was Silver rank 1 with 2000 points compared to silver rank 2 with 1750 2 days ago. However since then, I've lost about 80-90% of my games against terran and zerg.

Seems like every time I play against Terran they either scv/marine rush me, or make two tiny cloaked ghosts to EMP half my army, effectively taking half my army away, removing all caster energy and taking down all my guardian shields.

Every time I play against zerg, they mass lings, contain me, early expand, then mass muta's. Very rarely will I get roach rushed, but that often works too cause I'm always trying to counter the inevitable ling/muta combo.

Only fair fight these days for me are against other toss.

Thinking of throwing in the towel as a toss plater till they get fixed.

I'm wondering if other toss players have been getting owned more than usual the past few days

the counter to Ling / Mutas is the same as counter to Roaches. Zealot + Sentries.

[Shadwdrak]

You're joking right? 6 lings can effectively keep me walled in for the first 4 or 5 minutes cause lings run faster than zealots. If I build cannons then I don't have an army. Keep in mind the zerg player has already expanded and is winning the resource war.

From that point on, his army is always bigger than mine.

if you get walled in by lings from the start, you should quick tech to phoenix's. Pump out three and then go kill his food supply, then queen, and then econ line. You can use the first one to fast scout the whole map and killing any wandering overseers right away.

Continue to build Z's and a couple of more phoenix's, then you can send half them to finish his fast expand and/or main.

He won't be able to continue to pump out units since his food supply is gone. Doesn't matter how big his econ is. That should be enough time to come in and finish him off.

[Worax]

Blizzard disagree's?

Thats fine...

But the more I play, the more I feel that Protoss cannot beat Terran, or Zerg.

[Suspected]

Blizzard disagree's?

Thats fine...

But the more I play, the more I feel that Protoss cannot beat Terran, or Zerg.



The great thing about numbers is that they don't lie.

[Rybka]

The great thing about numbers is that they don't lie.

But the story they tell sure can be misrepresented.

P and Z are ahead in 1v1's, but along what lines? Are we talking only top-8 platinum play across all divisions? I hope so, because this game shouldn't even be balanced around trends at the rank 20 to 10 range.

In a game this competitive, with the stakes this high, we should only be looking at numbers derived from the top-top, best of the best players.

What do we see now? At the TOP-TOP, it's P and Z that are up. That may change at any given moment, but right now it appears that P is still ok.

[Stratosspear]

Blizzard actually disagrees, and feels that Terran is currently in the poorest position in fights against other races. Or at least so they have recently said.

Blizzard is being stupid.

Just because players are losing more often as Terran doesn't automatically mean they're imbalanced.

Look at SC1. Terran was, by far, the hardest race to start as. You lost a lot more games as Terran than any other race at the lower levels of play, yet if you try to argue that Terran was UP in SC1, you're a complete moron.

They are completely ignoring variables and only looking at win/loss and then saying Terran is UP. You'd think that they would know better.

[Zasz]

Blizzard is being stupid.

Just because players are losing more often as Terran doesn't automatically mean they're imbalanced.

Look at SC1. Terran was, by far, the hardest race to start as. You lost a lot more games as Terran than any other race at the lower levels of play, yet if you try to argue that Terran was UP in SC1, you're a complete moron.

They are completely ignoring variables and only looking at win/loss and then saying Terran is UP. You'd think that they would know better.

What else are they capable of looking at 1 month into the beta test? Years of established race dynamics? lol. Right now all Blizzard can do is read feedback on the forums and pull stats from the games being played on their servers.

Excuses shouldn't be made for a significantly lower win percentage for a particular race. Saying "oh they must be just hard to learn, it'll go up" is a mistake. The fact that Terran need EMP even to compete in TvP should be an indication right there.

From the forums, they should be gathering that worker rush cheese is a little too powerful against Toss and needs to be toned down (drop the mechanical tag from SCV's? dunno). They should also be gathering that Terran feel obligated to use EMP every single match just to stand a chance against Toss in mid/late game. If EMP gets toned down, and I think it should (make it researchable?), the rest of the race needs to be brought up to snuff, or you WILL see an underpowered Terran.

[Agrius]

if you get walled in by lings from the start, you should quick tech to phoenix's. Pump out three and then go kill his food supply, then queen, and then econ line. You can use the first one to fast scout the whole map and killing any wandering overseers right away.

Continue to build Z's and a couple of more phoenix's, then you can send half them to finish his fast expand and/or main.

He won't be able to continue to pump out units since his food supply is gone. Doesn't matter how big his econ is. That should be enough time to come in and finish him off.

This is the only strat that I have been able to get to work against zerg right now and it does work pretty well. If he fast techs to hydra and skips roaches he can stop it but other than that you can lock down his food supply and he is finished.

Another problem is the 6 pool zergling rush. I may have just been doing it wrong but one guy i played had 6 zerglings in my base just as my gateway was finishing. He killed the pylon and then started taking out workers. I was able to run them off with my workers but I was crippled. I started building another pylon and gateway(the first was dead by now) but eventually he had more zerglings then I could handle and he finished me off.

I think nerfing our gateway build time needs to be changed back to whatever it was. The combination of that and the increased research time on warp gate(which I agree was a needed change) has just killed our early game.